Welcome to the Korean American Perspectives podcast. I’m Abraham Kim. I’m here with Jessica Lee, my co-host. How are you doing, Jessica?

Jessica Lee

Hi everyone. Thanks Abe.

Abraham Kim
We have another exciting episode interviewing Sylvia Kim. She’s currently the Chief Innovation Officer at Asian Pacific Community Fund (APCF) leading the National Asian American Community Foundation Project (NAACF). She actually grew up as a Canadian Korean and grew up in Toronto. And if any of you have seen the show “Kim’s Convenience”, I understand that we can get a peek into Sylvia’s life by watching that show. But all in all seriousness, she’s a Queens University graduate and Oxford graduate and an accomplished attorney and then moved to Orange County at an important time in Orange County’s history where the demographics, the economic environment as well as the role of the Asian American community was going through a transformation. Now she is a force to be reckoned in Orange County, not only as a philanthropist and working with the philanthropy community, but also doing a lot of work to help economic development around the country. Over to you, Jess.

Jessica Lee

Thanks Abe. Well, Sylvia also happens to be a good friend of mine in addition to being a CKA member, and as Abe noted, a major leader within the Asian American community. And so it was such a pleasure to sit down with her at her home in March of this year. You know, a lot has happened since March. Her organization just had its first gala on June 14th, where CKA members Eugene Choi and Carol Choi, who we interviewed for our second episode of this podcast series, were honored and so it’s really interesting to see how different, thought leaders in California are coming together to really address some of the challenges that the Asian American community is facing ensuring resources and developing innovative strategies to reach more people. This is a great episode to tune in to, we’ll turn over to the interview now. Thanks.

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Jessica Lee
My name is Jessica Lee and I’m your host of Council of Korean American’s new podcast series called “Korean American perspectives.” Today, I’m pleased to interview Sylvia Kim, Chief Innovation Officer of the Asian Pacific Community Fund, to hear about her career in nonprofit management, law and philanthropy, as well as get her perspectives on key issues that are affecting Korean Americans today. Thank you so much for your time today, Sylvia.

Sylvia Kim
It’s my pleasure to be here.

Jessica Lee
So you’re a Chief Innovation Officer of the Asian Pacific Community Fund, leading the National Asian American Community Foundation Project, a new national philanthropic initiative that will amplify APCF’s mission and vision across different regions in southern California and beyond. You’ve also been a CKA member since 2017. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your background, where you grew up, and what inspired you, perhaps starting at a young age to work in this area of public policy and philanthropy?

Sylvia Kim
Yes, of course. So I’m a Korean Canadian. I’m proud to be born and raised in Toronto, Ontario in Canada. These days, Toronto has really been put on the map or Korean Canadians have been put on the map because of a little show called “Kim’s Convenience”. I like to say though that I was referencing “Kim’s Convenience” way back in the day before Netflix acquired them. But really “Kim’s Convenience” is really like my life experience. My parents immigrated to Canada in the late seventies, mid to late seventies. So one of the first Korean families really in the region. My father had a convenience store, brought my mother over, and I was raised when they had kind of evolved to the video store status, which was a higher level status. My dad went on to have a business called Video and Me, which was a distributor between small rural video stores and larger companies. So I grew up in that store mentality and very proud of where I come from specifically in Toronto. I grew up in an area called Scarborough, which was known as Scarlum. It’s a brown and black neighborhood. Not a lot of Asians, actually literally no Koreans at all. I always joke around that on my first day of kindergarten, one of my close friends — who ended up becoming one of my close friends — a Jamaican girl came up to me and was like, “girl, there ain’t no such thing as Korea.” And afterwards I used to bring a map of Korea with a big star to prove to her that Korea existed. I went on to be the only Korean in my class from kindergarten all the way to eighth grade. And so I really, I think was in a melting pot situation. You know, a lot of my best friends were Jamaican. I learned to speak a bit of Jamaican Patois, Pakistani, I know a little bit of Urdu. There was a huge Chinese influx, so that was really the largest Asian American population at the time, I think, where I was living. So I grew up with a lot of people speaking Cantonese swear words. So that was just a very, very diverse background. And I would say that part of my interest in social justice and public policy was, part of it is just kind of in my blood, I think. And I learned more about my identity later on, about my grandfather’s legacy, my father’s legacy, or my family’s legacy and kind of helping others in need. My grandfather was a pastor and his father was actually — so my great grandfather was one of the first Christians who was converted in North Korea through the Pyongyang revival through Canadian Presbyterian missionaries. And that was one of the reasons why they had immigrated to Canada. So I think partly it’s part of who I am. The other part was maybe because I had grown up with such a diverse community of peers that I think I learned that if you don’t speak up, you’re not getting your share. And so I think I just learned to be scrappy and to constantly fight for things and to raise my voice. And eventually hoping to raise that voice for others who may not have it.

Jessica Lee
Those are all great skills to have if you’re going to be an advocate, which you, I think have shown time and again to be quite effective. It’s really exciting to hear about how it all started. You talked about growing up as a Korean Canadian and being a minority in a minority and having other minority groups make you feel like you weren’t actually a minority perhaps. So, how did you deal with that sense of duality as both a Korean and a Canadian?

Sylvia Kim
I mean, I think when you’re a child your understanding of cultural identity is so limited. So I used to joke around that my understanding of being Korean was owning a store. So literally there were not that many Korean families, you know, all the Koreans I knew went to church. So it was all through my church, which was actually founded by my grandfather as the Toronto Korean Presbyterian Church, one of the first Korean Presbyterian churches in Canada. And so that was almost like a community center. And so that’s your understanding of Koreans. So my understanding was, “okay, Koreans have stores, like which intersection is your store at? What kind of store do you have? Why is your store next to another Korean store?” And also churches and my church at an early age had split, which is obviously also very common in the Korean community. And so it was like church splitting, the infighting, the community center vibe in the church environment. So that was really kind of my limited understanding. And I think I really felt very proud to be Canadian. I mean, that was just, I grew up in a real diverse, you know, I wore hanboks for Halloween. That was like my way of showing and contributing to that diversity. So I would say that I definitely was proud of my background and obviously the fact that I wore the hanbok or that I had the map of Korea, my parents were doing their best to teach me what they could. But really I would say my appreciation of that duality and the importance of really embracing my Korean heritage came at a much, much later age, which I can get into as well.

Jessica Lee
That’s perfect. Were there any important lessons or wisdom that shaped your life? Some of the things you picked up in your childhood perhaps where that lesson stayed with you and it’s really had a profound impact in how you see the world today?

Sylvia Kim
Absolutely. So I can think of two lessons and one of them maybe I’ll just continue then on my identity seeking journey. I grew up in Scarborough. Like I said, Koreans tend to like run away from that area of Toronto, but my dad didn’t believe in expensive housing. And so to set up shop there and actually live there until he retired. And so I kind of grew up fully Canadian, not really, I think having a full understanding of my identity. And as it turned out, one of the first causes that I became very passionate about were aboriginal rights issues in Canada. So the native Canadian community suffered a lot of different human rights violations from both the church and also the government. And one of the things that I anchored on was leadership development because I had met these native youth and was really shocked, I think, by their stories of disenfranchisement and just their depression. And actually there was a crisis with teen suicides where teens were actually committing suicide together. It was like chain suicides. So I got into that work. And one of the first things that I did was a native identity conference. And the whole idea was, “you know what, it’s not a mistake that you’re native or aboriginal or a Ojibwe. And you really need to embrace that and find power in that because there’s no way really to move forward until you root yourself in that identity.” So, ironically enough, it was at one of these conferences, the keynote speaker turned to me. You know, actually a lot of Koreans were involved in aboriginal issues, especially the Korean church. And he was like, “you know, I’m just curious, Sylvia, everything you were saying, have you done that for yourself? Because you talk it like you mean it.” And I remember being like, “Oh my god. I don’t think I have,” because I realized that I had never been to Korea. I had no understanding beyond my parents, like kage store experience. I had no idea about my grandparents other than my grandfather was a pastor. I knew nothing about my mom’s side. And so that was actually when I went to Korea for the first time and really got to understand my background. And I would say that that has forever changed my life. I think really knowing and understanding my roots and just how powerful that can be, the lineage that I come from, the lineage that all Koreans actually come from, and understanding that history of the Korean War and just what our grandparents went through, what our parents went through. That was when I found out that both sides of my family were originally from North Korea. I found out about that very strong Christian lineage in my father’s side, about how they rebelled and were so resilient against all costs to help others, and just always about giving back. And so I think I found power and empowerment in that cultural identity. And part of my saying then has been, “cultural identity to me is really the root of community empowerment at the individual level.” We need to embrace our cultural identity if we’re ever going to have community empowerment. So that, I would say, has really shaped my life. And another quick lesson to throw in there as well. While I was doing a lot of my aboriginal rights work, elders in the native community, always obviously have very wise things and it’s really overwhelming when you think about the amount of injustice or the amount of work that needs to get done. And something he said to me has stayed with me ever since. And he said to me — and actually not just to me, but to the whole room of advocates that was there — and he said, “don’t be a savior.” You know, people tend, when they get into the social justice work, to get this savior mentality. He said, “don’t be a savior. Just choose to do one small heroic thing each and every day.” And I think that really resonated with me. And I have to say I’m still learning what that means because it always seems like you get caught up in this mentality of wanting to do so much. But I think what he was saying is you don’t have to save the world, but even if you do one small heroic thing each and every day, and that could be as small as taking care of your neighbor, carrying out your duties as a parent, being a good friend, carrying out your civic duty, whatever that small act is, it’s the accumulation and culmination of those small acts I think that really end up making the largest impact.

Jessica Lee
I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of your recent positions and organizations where you’ve served in leadership roles, starting with the position as Orange County regional director at the Asian Americans Advancing Justice. And of course I met you while you were working there. And so I know about your work, and we’ve talked about it on a personal level of what that’s been like, particularly as a mother, as you said, with two young kids, having to really build an organization up. That’s no small feat. Can you walk us through what that was like, what that work meant to you and maybe your proudest accomplishment during your tenure there?

Sylvia Kim
Of course. So, you know, the joke is that I went from Toronto studying international human rights into suburban Orange County. So I think anyone who knows Orange County will know that that was a very difficult transition. I thought I was moving to LA, you know, we’d fly into LAX. And people joke around that OC is like the suburb of LA, but I think I had no idea what I was walking into. So I will say that the transition was very difficult. And I’m very thankful for people that connected me to Advancing Justice because I think that that role really helped me fall in love with the county. So it’s funny because just when I was like, “there’s no international policy work here” and we were so close to actually moving to NorCal, or actually considering a move to NorCal when I got connected to the organization and became the Orange County regional director. And really Advancing Justice has a rich history of civil rights advocacy work and impact litigation, and had done actually a lot of hate crimes work in Orange County, but there had not been a lot of community building. And also the region of Orange County had changed so dramatically. And so as I started reading and researching about Orange County, I think that’s when I was like, “oh my god, this is the perfect place for me. It’s a blank canvas.” And actually there was a specific report called “Orange County on the Cusp of Change”. And I’m proud to say that one of my proudest accomplishments is that I produced a report called “Transforming OC”. And it was about how Asian Americans were transforming the region of OC. So I would say that Orange County has dramatically shifted in the past decade. Asian Americans are the fastest growing population, of course, not just in the county, but across the country, but especially in Orange County. It transformed literally from orange groves and strawberry fields and a predominantly Caucasian Republican county to a region that now had the third largest Asian American population in the country. And institutions just didn’t know what to do with themselves. There was a complete disconnect in how to understand this community, how to help this community. And really for me, I saw it as a huge potential where I felt like Asian Americans are becoming a force in Orange County, was going to become a force, it was going to have a huge impact. So I think that I’m really proud of the report that we produced in partnership with UC Irvine. But more specifically I think I was so proud of just being able to build a movement. I think that’s what it really was. I mean, I feel like it really was not on my own shoulders. The community was so ripe to have an organization come in and advocate on behalf of the community, and actually the community was so hungry for that. I just remember every event being sold out, our council going from 30 to over 200 people. Just always struggling with capacity because everybody was seeking that kind of like-minded community. So I would say that I’m extremely thankful to advancing justice for the kinds of opportunities, that we had to build that community here in Orange County. But I really feel like that was just the beginning and that community is here to stay. I’m more active than ever. As we saw in the last election, Orange County is changing. It’s the first time in history that it turned blue, every single seat turned blue. And I think that’s very dramatic and indicative of the demographic shifts and just the transformational nature and force that exists here.

Jessica Lee
And what motivated you to eventually leave Asian Americans Advancing Justice and head to the Asian Pacific Community Fund?

Sylvia Kim
I will say very honestly, something that you touched on, a lot of it was burnout. When you’re in the thick of building an organization, you just, you know, it was like my baby. But I had two real babies and I think this is actually an issue that a lot of young nonprofit leaders and community leaders face, is just the question of balance and sustainability. And I think that for me, I just did not see the sustainability of the pace that I was going at. And also, the organizational landscape for Asian American work is also shifting. And I think right now there is a generational issue where a lot of the godfathers and legacy leaders that have built these huge organizations are in the midst of transforming and transitioning to a younger generation. So that I think added stress, I think to the work that I was doing. Yes, there are multiple factors, but ultimately I would say it was really burnout and just wanting to see if I could make even a broader impact beyond Orange County as well.

Jessica Lee
What would you say are some of the challenges that are out there for the Korean American community in particular? Not just in Orange County but maybe in California more broadly, and how far do you think our community has come since the LA riots in strengthening our voice and representation?

Sylvia Kim
I would say that one of the challenges that Korean Americans face, not only in California, but probably nationwide, is just the fragmentation. Korean Americans have come so far. I mean, I think about my roots in Canada and how much further Korean Canadians need to go. I mean, Korean Americans have so much to be proud about, especially in California, especially in Los Angeles, the rich history of K Town. Even here in Orange County, there is a second large population of Koreans. There’s a rich K Town history that’s being built right now. But I think the challenge is that Korean sometimes have too much of a micro perspective. So there’s a lot of perspective on taking care of my own, my church, and that’s about it. And I think that Koreans are not realizing that there is a broader dynamic at play. And if we are alone playing in our own enclave, we will never have a seat at the table. At the end of the day, we are Korean Americans. And so you kind of have to play with American rules. And I think that one of the challenges I see is that Korean Americans are often not quite present in situations where there needs to be more allies. Are Koreans being allies to the Muslim community? Are Koreans being allies to the broader Asian American movement? Are Koreans being allies to African Americans? I think that that’s one of the main challenges I see. And I think specifically in California where there are such huge enclaves and you almost don’t even need to leave the enclave, you don’t even need to mix and mingle with other races. That almost makes it too comfortable for people to kind of just stay in their comfort zone and just stay in that Korean enclave and never really think about the broader impact you want to make in American society. So I think that’s definitely a challenge. But I also feel like, of course our community has come a long way. I mean after the LA riots, I mean again, that’s not necessarily my history, but I’ve just seen the incredible passion and community building that’s taken place in Los Angeles and know that there has been incredible leadership that’s built institutions now in Los Angeles that will ensure that the kind of isolation that Koreans felt during the riots would never happen again. And I feel like we’ve definitely armed ourselves with more advocates, attorneys, tools, a lot of different, I guess tools to really ensure that that kind of situation doesn’t happen again. But I would say that there’s still a lot of challenges that our community faces.

Jessica Lee
You know, it’s funny, a lot of the themes that you raised just now, I’m hearing that from other people that we’ve been interviewing in terms of both a weakness of our community, but also an opportunity. The fact that we have been to date a little more insular and a little bit too community focused and not really being part of the larger, broader fabric of American society, you know, volunteering, serving in different community organizations, really being out there, right? And demanding a seat at the table, that’s not really been our strength. But I do think that there is a shift particularly, as you noted, a generational shift of folks who are in their thirties and forties and fifties who are not really satisfied with the status quo. They see something really broken in the way that we’re currently thinking about these things. And so I think we do have an opportunity that’s quite unique and maybe as you said earlier, maybe Korean Americans are really ripe for this awakening and more intentional alliance building with other communities. So it’s quite exciting. Let me shift gears a little bit and get your thoughts on philanthropy, which obviously is the focus of your work now and you’re doing a lot of innovative work. And so we’d love to hear about your current work as it relates to shoring resources and philanthropy and then get into some of the specific observations around how Korean Americans can become more philanthropic.

Sylvia Kim
Absolutely. I’m going to go back maybe and talk a little bit more about my transition because I will say that to say that I’m in philanthropy still feels really weird. I think anyone who knows my background knows that I identify much more as an advocate. And I didn’t really get into a lot of my grassroots advocacy work around North Korea, but I will say that whether it was with aboriginal rights, or North Korean work, or different areas of community building, what I’ve observed throughout all of them — and especially in my last role with Advancing Justice — was that you need resources. You need resources, you need capital. I mean, your advocacy, it doesn’t matter how articulate your argument is or how well written your policy paper is. Honestly, without the resources, it doesn’t have legs. And I think that’s been a new realization of mine, of understanding that philanthropy can actually be a powerful tool for advocacy, especially when you have donors and philanthropists who are interested in making a collective impact and are moving beyond this very colonial mindset of just having their ego stroked, this perpetuation of this frustrating cycle of nonprofits constantly having to ask for funds. I would say that that kind of generational shift right now is happening in philanthropy and that is very exciting. It’s a term called next gen philanthropy. And philanthropists are beginning to understand that together they are much more powerful. And so specifically what I’m working on under APCF is actually a National Asian American Community Foundation, which for many reasons has not yet existed. But I’m very excited to say that the board that I’m working with right now is very, both ambitious but also revolutionary. And I think that we’re really looking to harness the power of collective philanthropy and I think that’s a very exciting thing. To go back now and specifically talk about Korean Americans, well first I’m proud to say that there are Korean Americans on my board. And they are part of this kind of Pan-Asian, inclusive movement, to harness that collective power of philanthropy. But I would say that similar to what we’ve noted in other contexts, I think Koreans are actually much more philanthropic than other Asian groups because you just have to look at our churches. We build castles, we know how to build castles. In fact, we build villages. Some churches even have an education building, an administrative building, and a huge church. Like we know how to build villages. We did that through our Sunday giving. We are actually very, very philanthropic. But there’s just one specific target usually, which is the church. And I’m proud to say that Koreans give, we absolutely give, and we give to our families. We have a tradition of giving to our elders, ensuring that we do everything in our power to give to our children. I think that, maybe unlike other ethnic groups, giving is in our blood. But I would say that the problem lies in what we’ve been talking about is that insular focus and not seeing beyond our own enclave. And kind of understanding that philanthropy is actually a powerful tool where you can ensure a seat at the table. I mean, Bill Gates doesn’t get to go to the White House just because he’s Bill Gates. I mean, it’s because he gives. He gives in very large sums. When you move up the ranks in corporate America, there’s an expectation that you give. Managing partners are starting to be asked, “who do you give to, what boards are you on?” And that’s I think part of American society. So I think that Koreans of course were a newer immigrant group and maybe it’s just a part of history being made. But I think that instead of just giving sometimes to the church or to Korean community organizations, I think we also need to realize that we need to give to mainstream institutions. And when you just start seeing, I don’t know, the Kim School of Public Policy or the Kim School of Physical Therapy or whatever it is, I think that that is the struggle and the challenge in philanthropy I think with Korean Americans, is that our vision sometimes is very narrow in scope and very micro.

Jessica Lee
What would be the ideal outcome of the National Asian American Community Foundation? What are you trying to achieve?

Sylvia Kim
There are multiple things we are trying to achieve. I will say that our vision really, because obviously we can’t conquer the world, and taking that advice that we can’t save the entire world, our vision really is a unified and inclusive community of philanthropists and donors whose aim is to empower communities. And I think that is the key. I think a lot of philanthropists and donors like to do things at will, but the key is to harness their collective giving to actually make a positive impact. And that positive impact will be seen in empowering our communities. And we’ve broken that down into four missional elements. One of them is amplifying our assets. So understanding that we do have assets, actually many assets that we need to start being aggressively amplifying and showing American community that we contribute to the economy. We have needs, but we also have assets. The second thing is encouraging civic participation. This is where we have a low score and we’re getting better, but we need to do better. And so encouraging civic participation which obviously has a broad, diverse range of things that you can do there. And then thirdly is strategically responding to our needs, and lastly is strengthening our communities. The end vision really with the NAACF as what we call it, is really to build an institution that lasts beyond all of ours. We want that to be an institution very similar to the Jewish Community Foundation, which gives our community the gravitas and the power behind our voice collectively.

Jessica Lee
So you’re a grant making organization that is seeking to empower smaller organizations that are providing services or otherwise lifting up Asian American communities. Is that a good summary?

Sylvia Kim
I would say that we will definitely do grant making, but because it is so formative and actually that’s one of the many reasons why we decided to incubate this idea so that we could be much more strategic and thoughtful in the formation of its foundation. So I would say that we are going to be grant making, but we also want to be disruptive and think about sustainable, innovative ways to actually strengthen and empower communities. So I don’t think it’s going to just be in traditional grant making methods. We’re thinking for example, of social impact and impact investment options. What about social entrepreneurialism? How can we work together with the for profit community to actually bring sustainability to some of these organizations so that we break the cycle of colonial philanthropy?

Jessica Lee
Got It. That’s very helpful. Seeing as how it’s brand new,

Sylvia Kim
It’s literally two months in. So don’t quote me on that. It’s still very much information.

Jessica Lee
That’s really, really exciting. What advice do you have for people who might want to follow your footsteps, whether it’s in law or advocacy or now as a head of this new initiative? Do you have any advice for some of our younger listeners who might be curious as to how you connect these dots?

Sylvia Kim
I would say don’t be scared, I guess that things are not linear. I hope that my story has showed that nothing in my life has been linear. Sometimes it’s very circumstantial. I think that there is sometimes this force that wants you to kind of stay within the boundaries, within norms, within parameters. And I would say break out. Break out of that because I mean again, we didn’t talk about this as much as I wanted to, but one thing that I’m really struggling with right now is that I’m a full time mom and a full time employee. And I think that I’m a pretty kick ass employee, but the rules, the boundaries of employment in America just do not allow for me to be both identities: mom and worker. And I think that that’s an example of where I just want to disrupt it. You know, who’s to say that moms are not as good workers. In fact, moms are the best multi taskers, the best employees I have ever hired in my life. And I’m very excited that right now my boss is actually a mom. So this is the first time I worked for a mom and it has changed my landscape in terms of what I can do with my hours and my work. And so I would say, don’t follow the norms, break the norms, pave your own path. And the most important thing of course is knowing where you come from, drawing strength from that. Because obviously we want to pay homage to that and also just understand and be really anchored in our identities. But I think once you’ve got that anchoring, go out and change the world. It could be as small as, “you know what, I’m going to be a badass mom and a badass employee,” or it could be creating new things. Putting different sectors in the room that I’ve never been in the room together before. Just don’t follow the normal path. You know, I think I see that a lot with the younger generation. They’re the most entrepreneurial, digital media, social media savvy generation. And I have no doubt that they will absolutely just disrupt everything that we know. But just don’t follow norms. Is that too radical for it?

Jessica Lee
Well, you kind of touched upon my next question, which had to do with balancing work and family. And I think we can have a whole hour discussion just on that topic alone because it’s so loaded and there’s so much to unpack. And I appreciate your honesty about the challenges of trying to have it all, because it’s just, there’s not enough hours in the day to do that. And as a mother myself, I too struggle with that sense of incompleteness, whether I’m focused on work or when I’m with my daughter. And so I think that that’s something that really reflects closer examination at a societal level. But talk to us a little bit about how you are balancing work and family, and it sounds like you have some flexibility in a really understanding boss, which not many people have. So you’re, I think in a very privileged position, in a very unusual position, but what would you say has really been important and worked for you as you sought that balance?

Sylvia Kim
I think it comes down to kind of understanding yourself, right? Like a lot of it has to do with self awareness and like I had said my lesson about cultural identity, I mean really it’s about identity. Who are you, what do you value, what’s most important in your life? And if you think of it from that perspective, I mean, our families, right? People always say on your deathbed, your employees or your colleagues are not going to be there. Your employer is not going to be there, it’s your family. And also, for me, faith is very critical. Understanding how God has designed me and really embracing that, so I would say that those are kind of key anchors in my life that has very recently, I would say, very, very recently allowed me to re-prioritize and make sure that the balance that I’m seeking puts the things that I value most at the top. I would say there’s no secret formula. I mean, I always joke around that as a woman, we’re working in a white male world. The whole point of feminism is not to become more like men. The whole point of feminism should be to change the system so that it becomes more like women, which is now more than 50% of the workforce. That to me would be, you know, why does America have zero weeks for maternity leave? Why do women have to pretend that they’re not pregnant when they’re pregnant? Or be worried about talking to their employer when they’re pregnant, or talking about their children’s needs? It’s very backwards to me. So I think for me how I achieved balance was just being unapologetic and just being like, “you know what, my family is my priority,” and I’ve had years of course of putting my career first and struggling with the guilt. I have actually a side story if I can get into it. It was when my son was actually in first grade, which is not too long ago because he’s in second grade. So that just shows how recently I have achieved balance. But I was going off to DC for multiple conferences and actually winning various awards and really trying to actually make a lot of impact in both my North Korean human rights advocacy work and also my day job. And he turned to me one of these days and I’m always telling him to shush cause I’m on the phone or doing emails and he was like, “you know, mommy, do love work more than you love me?” And that just really broke my heart. And I was like, “you know what, what am I doing? What am I working 80 hours a week for?” If I cannot create a home environment where my son doesn’t believe that I love him most, then I’m failing. It doesn’t matter how amazing of a lawyer or an advocate or a worker I am. And I think that really shifted my priorities dramatically. And so when I started looking for new employment, I realized that I just have to be absolutely unapologetic. I’m going to be mom first. If you want me and you believe in my talent and my passion and trust me, I have a lot, then you’re going to have to abide by my value system and my priorities. I know that not that not everyone is lucky enough to be in a situation where they can be that unapologetic. But I do hope that whoever’s listening, if there are employers, that they can start seeing that they can create environments that actually allow their workers to thrive. And there’s all kinds of different sayings. Actually, recently I spoke to another CKA member. Phillip Chang, who is the founder of Yogurtland and we were laughing about — I actually asked him for business advice — but what he had to say for young people who wanted to go into business. And he said, “you know, Asians, we’ve got it all wrong”. He was like, “Asians are always told, become a professional, become a professional, become a professional.” But if you really think about it, if you’re a professional, you’re either working for someone or working for yourself. But he said, “but if you do either of those, you never have enough time to actually achieve your dreams, because if you’re working for someone else, you don’t have control over your time. And if you’re working for yourself, even if you are the highest paid lawyer, you can only kill yourself by 80 hours, maybe 90, but you will never have enough time.” And so he was like, “the best key is to make others work for you.” And I was like, that’s obviously easy when you have founded Yogurtland, but that is a good philosophy, right? It’s about time and what you value and really being unapologetic and maybe finding ways to make others work for you.

Jessica Lee
So you’ve laid out this picture, Sylvia, for us, that I think is really optimistic and future oriented and egalitarian when it comes to empowering, whether it’s women, working moms or just to marginalized folks that you’ve seen and befriended. And now you’re in positions where you’re able to speak out on behalf of these people who as you noted so ably oftentimes don’t have a seat at the table. So I think it’s really exciting that you have a lot of empathy and connection and a sense of mission. And I think it’s really admirable that you’re approaching your work so seriously and a lot of the things that you bring to the table are really authentic and come from a place of commitment. So I think that’s extremely exciting. As we close out this interview, I wanted to bring this conversation back to CKA because one of the reasons we’re doing these podcast interviews is not just to highlight innovative thinkers and leaders in the CKA community like you, but also to draw information and get your input on how CKA can advance some of these things that we all care about, including community empowerment. What do you think are some of the ways that CKA and other civic groups can help lift the Korean American experience and show that we’re really a full member of the community?

Sylvia Kim
I think that CKA has a very critical role to play. I talked about the fragmentation of Koreans. I’m seeing this actually in the Asian American space as well, and actually that’s why with NAACF, we’re focusing specifically on Asian American donors and philanthropists. But we’ve seen that there’s constantly a lack of unity when it comes to communities like ours. So I think CKA actually has so much potential and is really needed. I mean, something national is needed that really brings and unifies the Korean community and does it in a way where egos are not at play, where it’s multi-generational friendly, multi-experience friendly, embracing Korean Canadians like myself. So I think it actually has a big role to play in really bringing people together. And I think that that’s perhaps the stage at where it’s currently at. It’s really unifying that collective force that comes when it brings the right people together and makes those connections, creates spaces where people can be connected but also inspired, and eventually motivated to take action. So I think that it’s in this connecting phase. CKA is really a young organization as well. I would consider it to be relatively formative. So I think that it will have a strong role to play once it’s been able to connect and harness that power in a very, I think authentic and genuine way. Then I think that the force will just naturally be unleashed because I think when you bring people together that are like-minded, who want to make a positive impact, you can’t stop them. That’s where movements are built and momentum is strengthened. It’s like a snowball effect. You won’t be able to stop it. So I just think that CKA just needs to find that snowball momentum. And I’m very confident that with Abe and the current team that they have, that they will be able to find that. But I think right now perhaps, it’s going through, searching its role and its identity and where it plays and anything national will always be overly ambitious. But you do the best that you can. And I’m struggling with that myself by saying that we are national organ. Like are we really national? I don’t know, we are birthed in Orange County where there seems to be a dearth of philanthropists and philanthropic activity, but when we say national, I think that there’s a need to be a genuine investment and commitment to communities across the country, but especially to those that feel particularly underrepresented. And I think that when you look at Asian American demographics right now, there are many regions that are very similar to Orange County where people are seeing how massively the demographics have shifted, how much of a voice they need. I think that’s the case also for Korean Americans and are hungering for that connection and hungering to make that impact. I look forward to seeing CKA reach its full potential and also look forward to contributing as much as I can as a member.

Jessica Lee
That was Sylvia Kim, Chief Innovation Officer of the Asian Pacific Community Fund. Thank you so much for being with us today, Sylvia.

Sylvia Kim
Thank you very much for the opportunity.

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Abraham Kim
What a comprehensive interview. You touched on a lot of different issues with Sylvia Kim today. I really appreciate this interview. I think for myself, I’m taking away three things. One, is I think her point about the importance of philanthropists amongst, especially among Asian Americans,  to work together to really amplify the impact of giving as our Asian-American philanthropists work together to target certain kinds of areas of need within our community. And then secondly, I think the importance of our Asian American, in particular Korean American philanthropists that think about giving outside of our community. I think it’s important that we give back to the broader mainstream America. But also it’s an important bridging mechanism with our community, with other communities. And then finally, of course, being the CKA Executive Director, I always appreciate some great encouragement and some great ideas that fellow members offer. And Sylvia obviously offered some great points at the end of her interview so thank you for that, Jessica.

Jessica Lee
Absolutely. And as I said in the beginning, Sylvia happens to be a very good friend of mine and I’ve so enjoyed her candor and the way she treats her career and her family with equal seriousness and you know, just encouraging fellow working moms like myself to hang in there. I always find us incredibly energizing and so really enjoyed this time with Sylvia and I’m sure that we’re going to be hearing a lot more about Sylvia’s leadership nationally in the coming years. We look forward to your tuning in to our next episode and appreciate your support. 

Abraham Kim
Well, thank you very much. And again, we encourage all of you to subscribe to this podcast. You can visit our website at www.councilka.org or you can tune in and subscribe at any place you get your podcasts, from Apple Podcasts to Google Play or Spotify. We look forward to your comments and as well as your subscription. Thank you very much and we look forward to meeting you again at our next episode. Thank you. 

Jessica Lee
Thank you.