Abraham Kim
Welcome to Season Two of the Korean American Perspectives, a podcast by the Council of Korean Americans. My name is Abraham Kim and I’ll be your host for this podcast, which seeks to explore the complex issues that shape the Korean American community and share the inspirational life stories of its leaders. Today we’re pleased to interview Monica Kang, author, Founder and CEO of InnovatorsBox, a creative education firm that promotes sustainable change at the level where it matters the most: your mindset.

Abraham Kim
Through creative workshops, group activities and tools, InnovatorsBox seeks to help all professionals hone their creativity and problem solving skills in the face of change and complexity. Over the last four and a half years, Monica’s company has helped over 15,000 leaders around the world in over 20 cities. She is passionate about the idea that every single person on this earth is innately creative and that creativity has a power to solve every organization’s challenges, no matter the industry. With her corporate clients, she helps leaders of various organizations develop creative cultures, encourage workers to be courageous and risk takers, and support managers to build bridges across the increasingly diverse working environment.

Abraham Kim
If you struggle as a leader to build a creative culture for your company or to teach your employees to be more innovative, well this is the episode for you. Sit back and enjoy this interview with an amazing Korean American who ultimately found her calling not as an artist or a performer, but as an executive teacher, facilitator and coach who helped other leaders find their creative voice in the workplace. Without further ado, let’s jump right into the interview.

Abraham Kim
This is the Korean American Perspectives with Abraham Kim, Executive Director at the Council of Korean Americans. I have the privilege to be here with Monica Kang, CEO and founder of InnovatorsBox. Welcome, Monica.

Monica Kang
Thank you for having me.

Abraham Kim
Well, let’s get started with our interview from the beginning. Tell me about your immigrant experience. Were you born here or did you immigrate to the United States at a young age?

Monica Kang
So I was born in Washington, D.C. and my family used to live in Fairfax, Virginia, but my family also moved back to Korea pretty much when I was young. So I always felt a mix of I’m either too Korean or too American, but neither in between. And so that’s been part of my identity when I think about my immigrant experience.

Abraham Kim
So how old were you when you moved back to Korea?

Monica Kang
I just finished kindergarten and I was starting elementary school in Korea.

Abraham Kim
Did you go to foreign school or did you go to Korean school?

Monica Kang
I went to Korean public school where I was basically not saying anything for my first year. My parents used to say, at least my listening was good enough. So I would come back home every day, speak to my parents in English, and say this is what my teacher said, this is what I’m supposed to do so I’m going to go in my room and I’ll do my homework. And when they talked to the teacher they said yeah, she didn’t say anything today either because my Korean wasn’t good. And then after that I picked up a little bit.

Abraham Kim
So you lived in Korea for how long?

Monica Kang
For about eight years. I left, well, I came back to the States to study abroad in middle school, so that I could come to high school here for ninth grade.

Abraham Kim
Okay. So at eighth grade, you essentially came back and did you go to boarding school?

Monica Kang
Yeah, cause my parents were actually still in Korea. And so when I talk about that identity at that point compared to my Korean American classmates, I was like a foreign student, which was like, you know, coming from Korea, except my passport was American. So I wasn’t feeling some of the visa issues compared to my Korean foreign student friends.

Abraham Kim
But your English was still intact, or?

Monica Kang
A mix! I used to always tell this story that how it felt a weird mix of I could speak with like an American accent, but I still didn’t get the jokes. And up until this day, I still hate the mom jokes. I thought it was so disrespectful and that was like “the” joke that people would communicate as a way that you’re in and you’re out. And I wasn’t in cause I didn’t get it and I still didn’t like it. But I was able to relate to a lot of the other cultures because I still grew up with a lot of the TV characters. I watched Barney when I was growing up. I watched, you know, Sesame Street, I watched all the Disney movies so I could sing along with a lot of the songs that all my friends would sing as we go to the sports games that a lot of our international friends couldn’t because they didn’t grow up and share the same experience. So I always felt that I could relate to these things with this group, but not fully, and then same thing backwards. But it permitted me to start being curious about being that kind of bridge builder.

Abraham Kim
So where did you go to boarding school?

Monica Kang
Madeira school, which is in Virginia McLean. So the DMV area is actually a family close to me.
Abraham Kim

Okay. So that was a day school? Not at boarding school.
Monica Kang
It was a boarding school. It has boarding and day school. Yeah.

Abraham Kim
So how was that? Good? At such young age, you left home?

Monica Kang
It was tough. I am so gracious for my parents for now being courageous. Now, when I think about my friends who are at that age, sending their kids away, the number one thing they say is like, “Oh, I don’t want to send my kids anywhere”. And I’m like, I think I would feel the same way. I don’t know how my parents had the courage to do it, but I’m so grateful. Cause I remember they sat down with me and said, “You can have a choice. You can either go to an international school here, if you pass the grades, and then choose to live in Korea or you know, look for new opportunities elsewhere in the States if you get into a school there.”

Abraham Kim
So they gave you the option to leave or stay.

Monica Kang
Yes. Which was not easy for them either. But that I think was one of the many decisions that I’m grateful for where I could see they took a lot of courage to help me keep choosing things that would be more opportunities versus putting me in a box of a definition of what a successful career or life is. And so even throughout my career I remember always having conversations where I’ll go back to the drawing board and I’m like, I think this is what I want to do. Or like I think this is what I choose, which was always not the traditional path and I’m grateful they were open and willing to listen and consider some a little bit more with multiple conversations than others, but always grateful for that.

Abraham Kim
So do you feel that your having left home so early and really growing up very fast as a young child? Yeah, as a 13-year-old, how did that shape you as an adult today? I mean, do you feel like the work you’re doing, kind of the way you think about the world, really, was shaped by really leaving home at that such early age that help you to think how to solve problems, right? And you had to— it was survival, essentially for you, right?

Monica Kang
Yeah. one thing I used to tell my friends, I think up until even grad school and even now, once in a while, is in a way, because high school was so tough, it almost prepared me for life. And it was tough, not just because of the school curriculum, not because it was a girl’s school— which is a whole other conversation. It both has opportunities and challenges, because we’re competitive and you put all type A amazing girls in one school where it gets very competitive and that’s hard in a teenager time. But also because I had to really think about all these things. And so it’s funny, I think looking back, you know, we all think, or at least for me and many of my friends, I thought I already grew up. And so when I went to college, I thought I’m already old enough now, I know all these things. And each year, I think I look back and say, “Oh my gosh, I was so naive. I thought I knew everything.” And so I think those lessons make it more humbling. Even now as I continue to go through different challenges and work with different people in different communities, it reminds me that you can’t always assume what you know and it’s always different. And then also life is so short to not have fun. So I try to think more about that because I think I was so focused in high school, in college, to just like try to fit those perfect criteria. It’s like I’ve got to get good at grades, I got to make sure I do the best. But does that always bring me the greatest joy? Sometimes not and I could enjoyed high school a lot more if I didn’t stress out so much and so I think about that. But in a way equally grateful that I got to think through those things because of that. So it’s kind of both.

Abraham Kim
So because you grew up fast at such a young age, do you feel like perhaps this better prepared you for adult life or did you feel like maybe growing up fast put additional pressures on you as you were going through adult life?

Monica Kang
It’s a great point. And in a way, I wish somebody had this conversation with me when I was in college because it certainly was a double edge sword. like, you know, we were just talking about, I, you know, I was better at doing my laundry’s making sure I cleaned my place and you know, making sure I look in my schedules and stuff like that. So much better than others because I got used to taking care of that by myself. You know, making sure you get to the airport on time and not miss your flight. I still have before. But you know, still the fact of small logistical things put you in better place and emotionally as well because you know, frankly, it’s even in college as you meet more people, and especially at Boston University, there’s a lot of different types of people in a huge school. So I didn’t get along with some people and they didn’t like that. And so I had some ostracizing moments, but because I’ve learned a lot in high school, I kind of learned how to just ignore it. And you know, the thing I learned about ostracizing is if those who are trying to ostracize you don’t see the results they want because you just ignore what they’re doing, then it’s not fun for them. So they stopped ostracizing because it wasn’t fun for them anymore. But I learned that the hard way because I went through a lot of that challenge in high school and so at college with more people, if I didn’t get along with certain people, I just knew that as long as I was keeping true to myself and learning how to be a better person, I can just keep finding better people elsewhere and not just feel crushed by this small group of people just didn’t like or didn’t fit in a box or certain way. So that part, both emotionally and logistically help. I do think I overly stressed myself because of that in a way that I have to do things even better. So I stressed about needing to do my homework even faster, like needing to get better grades, like making sure that I was always helping other people and you know, being mindful, which meant less time for myself. and so I think it was only halfway through later in college where I wanted to make sure I dedicate time for myself, which meant I’m not going to be embarrassed if I just really don’t want to go to a party. I just really don’t want to go to this party. I shouldn’t feel embarrassed about it. But I hated when people made me feel embarrassed to like, Oh, you should come party with us. Why? Like are you being like weird for not wanting to do that? So those are kind of the dual aspects that I think about it.

Abraham Kim
What did you study at Boston University?

Monica Kang
International Relations and a minor in Chinese Language.

Abraham Kim
So it’s interesting that you studied politics while you’re going through this experience. Was that intentional?

Monica Kang
Political from the beginning, right? I studied because I think when I shared about even my high school experience, I thought a lot about how I was always the bridge builder. Whether I was misunderstood and I hate it for that, or I was the one who is successfully helped two different people understand. At Madeira, one of the things that was really cool is you get a chance to intern in a couple of different places during your Wednesdays and during the curriculum. I never forgot how when I got to intern Capitol Hill, one of the conversations we had was how I was sitting in the room where we had a Korean politician and you know, our American representatives help connecting the dots. And we had a formal interpreter, but there was just something in the way how that conversation was communicated. It just, there was a cultural nuance. Yes. Like the word-to-word translation was correct, but the nuance was not. And so after the Korean delegation left and I knew my representative was a little perplexed, I remember communicating back to him like, “Hey, actually I don’t know if it’s my place, but I just want to explain culture-wise, the reason why this person said ABC is because of this culture and context.” And he was like, “Oh, now I get it.” And I never forgot that moment up until this day because it reminded me of how powerful it is if you can be that bridge builder. And knowing how I even loved just doing those simple tasks at Capitol Hill made me realize I really want to learn how it works in bigger contexts, globally. And that’s why I pursued International Affairs and continued to pursue that as my career cause I really wanted to be a diplomat and thought that was the only job that I love.

Abraham Kim
So did you go to graduate school immediately after undergraduate?

Monica Kang
I thought about it, but I worked for a little bit. One because I wanted more experience and two because I didn’t get it the first year. So for those who applied and didn’t get it the first year, that’s okay. It’s all coming for a good reason. I was grateful to have a chance to work in three different places before I got to grad school. After I graduated, I interned at the State Department in D.C. So I got the D.C. political scene right directly again. I didn’t get my clearance in time, so I had that freak out moment, so if anyone else had that, that’s completely normal. I got to also work in Geneva at the UN. So I got my European taste of it. And then the international organization had tons of chocolate. That was great too. And then I went to Korea actually to work at a newspaper organization and got to learn about that aspect. as well as helping out with an educational program.

Abraham Kim
So how was it working in those three different international environments? Did you feel, I mean, did you feel like your training from high school really prepared you for that international scene?

Monica Kang
I still tell this to people, but I literally felt like I had multiple identity crisis. I was either too Korean, too American, too something not so I was the kid I think when I was interning at state that I just didn’t learn/know enough of the professional lingual. So I was really grilled on making sure I learned that. I thought I mastered it and now I went to the UN in Geneva and now like I’m way too American at everything I did. I was working during lunch, and like you don’t do that in Europe. You’re supposed to take a two-hour lunch break and you’re supposed to get to know people. When you socialize, you’re supposed to ask people what their real life is instead of just working. And I had another cultural reverse shock when I went to Korea where it is actually working hard. And I remember one incident, I almost forgot that I was, I was reminded because like we went out and in Asian culture, you know, socializing is an important piece where you bond and really get to know. And I remember how we went out all for drinks with this international delegation with my team and I kind of was worried cause I don’t really drink a lot and I didn’t drink at that time so it seemed a little concerning, like, why are they drinking so much? We’re having a very important conversation.

Monica Kang
But as soon as the delegation left, I’ve realized how serious they were about business because as soon as they left, it was as if night and day. They were all back to business. I’m like, okay guys, let’s do team meeting right now. And we just went over the entire dinner situation where okay, you saw that cue sign, that’s what this means. Like, okay, tomorrow you should have this paper done. And I was really impressed with that dedication. But the summary is that I had multiple identity crisis reminding me that I don’t feel like I fit everywhere, but in a way I fit everywhere. And two, there’s just always something more to learn, just when I thought I figured it out. And that, I think to comment, stuck with me as I continued to go on cause they actually continued to go to places where I was either a minority or I was doing something for the first time.

Abraham Kim
So after that experience, you returned back to Washington D.C. and you were at Johns Hopkins University SAIS, which is a very well known international public policy program here in Washington D.C. and then you were there a couple of years and then you went into nuclear nonproliferation afterwards.

Monica Kang
Yes.

Abraham Kim
Tell me about that. How did you select that career after grad school?

Monica Kang
Well, the one thing that inspired me from those different jobs before grad school and as I was at grad school was just remembering how important it was to have that voice and being in the position to share that different voice. If I didn’t work at the UN, I might not have understood that cultural context of how Europeans work differently. If I had never worked at a newspaper agency in Asia, I would’ve never understood how socializing is very serious business connection to what you’re doing in the daytime. And I think that nuance permitted me to understand, I’m learning about all these things, but I know there are places where these people don’t know this. And I wanted to figure out how can I be that voice. And I found that in politics we tend to see a majority of white male experts talking about all these things and particularly of nuclear security. I just found that most of the experts were white males and I wanted to see how me learning about these things could help bring a different insight and thought. Might as well, if I’m paying for tuition, might as well learn something. I really don’t know. So that’s why I chose strategic studies, military security and pursued that career and really enjoy learning and working where you’re connecting the dots among different people.

Abraham Kim
But you went from there and you did a dramatic shift to creative consulting, or innovation consulting. Walk me through that journey. How did that go from guns and bombs over helping people to solve problems in their organization and companies?

Monica Kang
It’s funny because hindsight vision 2020, I don’t think I would have ever told myself that it would have made sense to do it. But what really triggered me was I was in a job in Korea I loved, but I was very depressed and I was literally crying to work every day. And I thought to myself, if I worked this hard to get here, there must be a better way that I can start and live my day than just like crying and feeling miserable at work every day. And I didn’t appreciate when people say, “Oh, it’s because you’re a millennial, you just need more clear purpose in life.” And I’m like, “I have a purpose in life. I’m like preventing nuclear weapons. I have great colleagues. I get to travel around the world.” Everything on paper made sense. And it wasn’t until I kind of really took a couple steps that helped me rekindle, to re-love my job. And when people ask what was that? I realized for me it was creative mindset and that’s when I got curious. Well how can I help many more people? Because I know many friends of mine going through the same thing, but I know there’s tons of other people that I have never met who might just want to learn how they can bring out their best potential and not feel like they’re stuck in a box. And that’s how it made sense. Now looking back that because I had all these different experiences working in different industries, different communities in age groups that I felt comfortable recognizing all the different pain points and listening to them, how can we help everyone speak their voice.

Abraham Kim
But there must’ve been an experience or something that kinda helped catalyze all this or galvanize this to say, “I’m going to do something in the creative space.” I mean, it’s one thing, you know, my background is also in security studies too, but you know, but I went from guns and bombs to think tank world. I didn’t go all the way to, you know, creative consulting. And so there must’ve been like a defining moment or something that led you to saying, “I want to do this in a completely different area of industry.”

Monica Kang
Yeah, I think it was two parts. One particular trigger moment that helped me change my negativity to positivity was actually because I just wanted to get to work in a different way cause crying in the bus every morning was a little embarrassing. So it really started with one question of like, “Okay, how do I get to work? I know I’ll probably feel miserable today too, but maybe if I walk to work less people will see me. That’s going to be less embarrassing” and so that’s actually how my first decision started. But then because of that small decision I had to change a couple other decisions, which is I had to wear a warmer outfit or actually thinner or because now I’m walking at the heat or the cold. I had to wear comfortable shoes. I had to actually know where I was going because now that’s a two-hour commute instead of just like an hour commute. And I would just then need to make sure, do I need to bring a separate outfit or do I have to make sure like I pick up coffee or breakfast on my way. And so what I quickly realized is that because of that simple decision, I had to change all these other behaviors. And over time, what I quickly realized is that that’s the power of the mindset.

Monica Kang
We think about wanting to be healthy, like physically healthy, and we talk about all these different great ways to do it, but it really starts with one action at a time. One decision and one habit at a time. And recognizing that, I got to experience the powerful transformation that I was personally going through. And the second piece that really inspired me to maybe help this as a business was because as I was going through that transformation, more people were asking me, “Whatever you’re doing, you seem significantly happier, you’re more productive. Is there a way that I can learn how to do that?” And I just started having conversations within small groups and every time there was always one or two people who just came up to me and say, like, “Monica, I just have to tell you. I’ve worked in these number of years. But the way you explained it is the first time I ever understood how I can be creative.” And I think those comments and my experience, both the two gave me the courage to think about, well, I know this is important. It’s clearly something I don’t see in the market and people are giving me feedback. There’s some piece that I can do well in the way I thought was naturally best. So that gave me the courage to figure out what can I do that in translation to the business. And so I think that’s what helped me get into it.

Abraham Kim
So tell me about InnovatorsBox. There was a decision at some point that you decided, I’m going to leave government service and I’m going to go start my own company. Tell me what precipitated that. Was there an event and what were you feeling at that time, when you were launching a new company?

Monica Kang
I just didn’t have any more free vacation days to run the business cause I was running it part time. I am a believer, even for friends who come up to me now and say, “Hey, I have this great idea. Like when can I leave my company?” And I say, “That should never be your first question. Your first question should be how long can you do it while you have your day job?” And for me, that was eight months. I know I would’ve done it even longer if I could. but basically anywhere that was outside of my nine-to-five jobs at my work, I thought everything about InnovatorsBox, I spent all my hours and energy all weekends. And I just realized how much joy it brought to me and the impact from the few events that I could do. And so that’s where I got thinking about how can I do more of this, but am I financially ready to? And so that’s where I was being mindful to use my vacation days. And because I was a workaholic, I had a lot quite left. So I would use that to do conference traveling or, you know, attend programs where I can craft my skills, whether as a facilitator or get my coaching certificate as long as it doesn’t clash with my day job. And you said in a useful way, so as I ended up using all my vacation days, I realized I had a client project that I needed to be available in the daytime. And that’s when I realized, okay, if I really need to be available for this client, who’s going to pay me into this event. It wouldn’t make sense for me to take another sick day, which I didn’t had anymore. And so that’s when I had to say farewell. But if I had a little bit more bandwidth, I would have tried to hold on a little bit more because it’s a huge learning curve.

Abraham Kim
So how long has InnovatorsBox been in existence?

Monica Kang
So since then, now it’s been a little over four year and a half. We’ve done over about 300+ sessions around the world in 20+ cities for about 15,000 individuals around. And I have now six different products. I have a book that’s also being book-translated and so still got a lot more to do.

Abraham Kim
Tell me a little bit about the book and how your book shapes the different things that you do.

Monica Kang
Yeah. So the book is “Rethink Creativity.” And I wanted to write it because I realized there’s still so much misunderstanding on creativity and innovation. And I struggled for a little bit. I know there are tons of other experts out there. I know there’s tons of other books on innovation. And the number one question that somebody asks is like, “Why do we need another innovation book?” And while I thought to myself on that, I realized, well, if we were already good enough, we wouldn’t still have the majority still believing that they’re not creative, that it’s not possible, and that I’m not creative. And as long as that’s true, there’s a reason why I think the way I’ve been training in being able to providing the service and the work that we do. And unfortunately since they can’t be available to every person every moment when they need it, that’s where I thought the book can be a powerful resource for those, so whether they need to read something at the middle of the night and be reminded how powerful and unique their insights are, or somebody who’s feeling stuck at a workplace where everyone is discouraging them and they just really need to build that resilience.

Monica Kang
My hope was stemming from that because I was that very person. I just really wish somebody was out there to remind me that everything that I was asking and questioning was normal and that I just needed to rechannel my creativity that I didn’t know at that time to find a resource and be a problem solver instead of just complaining and feeling limited. And so that was the vision for the creating the book and hence focusing on how do you bring creativity in the workplace, but also seeing resilient as an individual.

Abraham Kim
So the work you do is doing these seminars and training for companies and nonprofits and other organizations. And your work takes you not only to companies here in the United States but also abroad to Asia. I’m curious, as you’re working with these different communities, do you find differences in these communities, how they approach creativity and what are usually the hurdles for creativity in these communities?

Monica Kang
Absolutely. I would say the environment plays a big role because as Jim Rohn said, you know, we are the product of the five people we surround ourselves with. And if the five people in the five messages we receive society is that, you know, you can only do creativity if it’s art. You can only do this if you have a doctorate degree. You can only do this if society gives you an approval stamp. Then even if you didn’t believe it at some point you gradually kind of buy in or have a difficult time disproving it because you’re just so used to hearing it all the time. And unfortunately, society-wise, we have that notion but even more so in Asia. And I know that pressure cause I grew up in Korea as well, that you know, societal expectation of what it means to be successful. And I think because of that, it has made it hard for certain people to try something with more risk that is more courageous. And whenever I meet those individuals, it’s incredibly empowering. But at the end of the day, the conversations we often have with one another is then at the end of the day, how do we continue to be resilient? Because the surroundings that we live in in Asia is discouraging of that. We talk about innovation all the time and yet individually, it just seems anything you do differently, it’s like, “Wait, where are you standing out? You don’t fit in our box.” And that question makes it hard for certain people who just didn’t have that support system to say that’s okay, you can still stand up even if you hear those things or know how to contextualize those insight thoughts into a practical business lesson or tool that they can implement in a business culture. And so that’s something that I take a careful eye on.

Monica Kang
Reverse wise, I would say the challenge in the states is that a focus on individualism. And so I think a lot about how well Asia is very good with the community aspect. Sometimes that pressure of wanting to think individually has made it hard to understand how to relate to the community. And so I think of that angle a lot more when I’ve worked with the clients here. and think about how can I help them see that every action they take has a ripple effect across the different networks they work with. And so it goes back to that story that I thought about even way back at Capitol Hill, I’m still being the bridge builder, it’s just a different context. And now I feel that it’s not that I gave away my interest in diplomacy. I’m just playing that role now in a different context and being a bridge-builder across these different communities. And so I feel grateful that I think I had to go through everything so that I can do this work in a more thoughtful way.

Abraham Kim
So how do you stimulate a culture of creativity in your organization or a company? Do you find it different between say a nonprofit versus for profit, or you feel it’s pretty much the same across the board?

Monica Kang
It’s certainly different, but it’s different because it’s more because people are different. I think it’s another way of saying like, when my favorite question I like to ask is like how do two people stay best friends? Like how do, how does a marriage become successful? How does like a friendship become successful? How does parenthood become successful? And I bet you can ask six different couples, six different families, you’re going to get completely different answers. And we don’t think for a second that’s weird. Because it’s normal. We’re all very different people. We’re different for different reasons. So the beauty of it is more of how do we make sure we understand and embrace these differences and find a solution that works for this group. So the number one advice I usually share with my nonprofit friends is like, don’t try to be a company that copies Google. Yes, it’s great. What Google has done, I hugely respect that. But what you need in your nonprofit is what works for you. With this budget, with these people, with these resources in a way. Because you have constraints, you have to be creative. And that’s actually where the joy is, not the concern. Same with corporations actually because you have a global employee base. This virus situation actually is a perfect case where a lot of companies are really thinking about this more deeply as they’re seeing more of their employees teleworking, as they having to now transfer their meetings to virtual conferences, how they have already built trust among their employees and how they have encouraged and discouraged one another is making that transition even easier and harder. So if you already have a good sense of trust among your employees, then it’s a lot easier.

Monica Kang
Now that being said, as you probably go back to the same scenario, there are certain elements that consistently show up even in good relationships and good trust among friendships. Same thing in the culture aspect. And I would say that curiosity ,that open-mindedness, that trust, of course, technically you want to have some structures that permit that. But a lot of it is these “softer skills”, cause it’s actually hard to do these softer skills, that exists and permits the culture to organically grow and evolve. And I think that’s the perfect example of where creativity ignites, because creativity simply means that you are thinking differently and you’re permitting people to think differently to think of new solutions. But if they are forced in a structure, they’re forced to do certain things. How do you expect them to be creative if you didn’t give them room to heal from their discouragement over the ears from other places or even from a different boss they had? How do you expect them to have the courage to speak up now? Cause they’re just hurt. they need time to heal. And if you’re not giving them space to embrace that, then no wonder there is a little clunkiness in the culture.

Abraham Kim
So as you’re working with these different communities that you kind of alluded to earlier, perhaps there are some generational differences too, in terms of creativity,

Monica Kang
Yep, five generations now in the workplace.

Abraham Kim
And so how, I mean, what do you do to help bridge that between generations? How do the different generations think about creativity differently?

Monica Kang
They certainly think differently. Differently in an aspect of what they think is possible to how they might think is the right way, and three, how it should be rewarded. What helps them get over those differences, I think, is having a space where you’re just understood and appreciated, which goes back to one-on-one communication. Because of the way we rely so much on technology, I think it’s so, so important that we have even more strong, clear communication. Like just knowing that, okay, we’ve now sent five emails and it’s not going anywhere. Can you just pick up the phone and just talk to this person knowing that if you felt like you know there’s just something that doesn’t feel right, that you feel comfortable to just grab ahold of this person and say, Hey, can we just have a one on-one chat for a second? I just felt like something was off right now. There’s a bit of tension I feel here. That’s all communication and I think no matter what generation or what background somebody is. When they feel appreciated, when they feel safe, and I know in psychology term we call this psychological safety, you’re more likely to speak up, share your honest thoughts, be comfortable, disagree, but walk away with an agreement. And I think that’s the key element that truly helps whatever the background or generation is to connect the dots.

Monica Kang
And I think that was the reminder because I usually work with people who are probably 20, 30 years older than me. And I know sometimes people ask me like, how do you make sure they respect you? And I’m like, well, the first thing is I have to remember that they don’t want to talk with me because of my age or like how I look, they’re talking with me because of my expertise and I better make sure I’m damn good with my own expertise and learn my craft. And the number one thing I could do in respect of their time is showing them respect to know how I can help them. When I come with that attitude, they can see that crystal clear. And I think that’s the type of attitude whether you feel like you’re the younger or the older one. When you come to the meeting board and bring that, that’s when the appreciation and understanding is. And so if you’re listening and you feel like, “Oh, but I often feel like I’m actually the old one. Like everyone else is a millennial in my office and I feel left out.” Well think about how maybe the way you’re communicating that you might have empowered them but also discouraged them. Is there a way that you can open up a conversation. And vice versa, if you feel like, “Hey, I’m the only one, everyone looks different than me. I’m the only Brown one in my office.” Well that’s okay too because think about again, what was the moment that you build bridges? So again, I think all of this, no matter its culture or team building, it’s all communication and building trust and starting back to the basics.

Abraham Kim
So communication and building trust is the environment in which creativity can flourish. but how do you get creativity? I mean, what are the sources of inspiration? How do you get inspired? Where do you go and how do you encourage others to be inspired or where do they get these ideas?

Monica Kang
Yeah, hugely important to make time for it. One thing I share with folks is, you know, think of a way about how you assess your physical health. If you know that you care about being healthy, you make time to exercise, you make time to eat well, sleep well, think positively. And that’s where the effect is. It’s not because you just went to the gym one day and then I’m like healthy for this year. You wouldn’t believe that even if it’s the most trustworthy friend. So it’s the same thing with your mental muscle, which is your creativity as well. If you’re not practicing or giving space to hone it, then how can you improve it? So I would start with baby steps. Like think about in your daily routine, is there a space where you can daydream regularly and be inspired? For some people it’s actually commuting in the car. I know actually I was just listening to the podcasts or some of the interviews by Sarah Blake on how she gets inspired and she said her commute to work is just six minutes, but she would try for an hour just for inspiration and just be daydreaming. I know some people would just take long walks and for others if you feel like, I’m too busy, I don’t have time for any of that, maybe it’s that the next time you just watch a movie, because I religiously make sure I take at least an hour or two hour every day, whether it’s watching movies, reading a book, taking a walk after work or before and permit me to just stay open to learn new things. And so that’s one piece, just making time consistently. The second is being open to receiving and experiencing as many different inputs because going back to Jim Irwin’s quote, it’s not just the people, it’s the input that you’re receiving. So one thing that was why I realized is when I was in my political space and nuclear world, all my input, 24, seven was just nuclear. So I was learning a lot about it, but I was very uninformed of everything else in society. If you told me about the virus, then I will probably only think in nuclear context, not about anything else. And I realized how narrow-minded I was in the way I thought about it. And that’s in a way what makes me inspired to share that more with others. Like just keep learning and like expose yourself to different contents. If you’re a biochem expert, just certain about something that is not biochem every day or like every week, just make the an intention to attend an event. Even. the most cheapest thing could be maybe even something you just go to an event where you know, nobody else is going to be a biochem expert and you might think, what am I going to make use of it? But you might walk away with learning at least one new thing, meeting somebody who just does not think like you. And that’s the key aspect because being creative is connecting the dots in different ways but how do you intend to do that if you’re exposing, if you’re not exposing yourself to different things?

Abraham Kim
I watch cooking shows. That’s my point of inspiration. That’s where I get inspired. these documentaries. I’m a documentary junkie. It’s like Chef’s Table and other things like that. I know we can keep going on and the such an interesting and fascinating conversation with you Monica, but I want to ask one final question which we usually end with. If you could meet your 18-year-old self, what would you tell the 18-year-old Monica?

Monica Kang
I would tell her that don’t worry because nothing I plan will work out anyway. So scrap that fear and actually dream five, ten times bigger because that very thought of making plans based on what I know is the very thing that’s limiting my future, not helping me grow. And I think about how much has just changed the way how we work in the office in the past 10 years, it’s only going to change a lot faster. And so especially for those who are graduating now, I tell them just don’t think about learning skills for the jobs you’re applying for tomorrow. Like everything that you go through and learn right now might help you one day. You just might not know. Just focus on learning and enjoying it. I think that’s the other thing. Just enjoy it and you know, that will come together. But keep a lookout. Just keep trying to look for different patterns and, you know, learn through the process and enjoy it because it’s not going to work out the way you thought. It just will be incredibly better.

Abraham Kim
Well, thank you Monica. Thank you for your time and sharing about your life and just just giving us tips about how to be more creative in our workplace. So thank you very much, Monica.

Monica Kang
Thank you for having me. Just have fun and enjoy life.

Abraham Kim
You got it from Monica. Enjoy life.

Abraham Kim
I hope you enjoyed this interview with Monica Kang. Monica reminds us that clear communication and trust building are essential ingredients for creativity to flourish in any organization. Everybody has creativity, it just needs to be encouraged, nurtured, and allowed to grow. Monica also reminds us that being able to explore outside the boundaries of the known is what allows people to carve out new ideas and new spaces to explore the unknown. In a time of uncertainty, it is ever more crucial for innovative thinkers to rise up and transform the world for the better.

Abraham Kim
Well, thank you again for listening to this episode of our second season of the Korean American Perspectives. We have a lot more interviews to showcase, so please subscribe to our podcasts and visit our website at councilka.org for more interviews, this episode’s show notes and more. We welcome your thoughts and feedback on our social media platform, Facebook and LinkedIn or send us an email podcast@councilka.org. Thank you again and we hope to see you next time.