Abraham Kim
Chil serves as the only Korean American artistic director of a major theater company in the United States. He is finding himself navigating this turbulent world less than one year into this job. Fortunately for the theater, Chil came from a long and award-winning career of artistic directorship in major theater companies in Boston, San Diego, Seattle, and Los Angeles, as well as acting and directing in TV and film. So working in the digital format and steering through tough times are not new to him. However, still adapting performances to online platforms like Zoom or Facebook Live is still tough. The solutions will always fall short of live shows. In my discussion with Chil, we talk about the hard choices the art community and its leaders will have to make in this COVID-19 world. Chil and I also talk more broadly about the societal stresses of the COVID-19 pandemic, especially the disturbing rise of anti-Asian American sentiment, the growing reports of violence against this community, and what he feels needs to be done to combat this horrific trend.

Abraham Kim
Plus we take a step back and reflect on his long career in the performance and entertainment industries and discuss about important issues, such as the progress made in Asian American representation in TV and film and the mixed impact of the Parasite film sweeping the Oscars will likely have on the entertainment industry for Asian Americans. We hope you enjoy this honest and engaging conversation with Chil Kong about his life, his career, and the tumultuous COVID-19 world.

Abraham Kim
Welcome, everyone. My name is Abraham Kim. I’m the Executive Director at the Council of Korean Americans and I’m here with my friend, Chil Kong. Welcome to the Korean American Perspectives.

Chil Kong
Thank you. Excited to be here.

Abraham Kim
Let’s start off with, I want to ask you about your name? Is that a derivative of a Korean name?

Chil Kong
It actually is. My full name is Kong Pyeong Chil, so it’s the “Chil” that no one could say properly here. Even in the way it was translated at immigration, it was translate with an “O”, so I was called “Chol” for a lot and that was not correct. The closest pronunciation is “chill”, so I just stuck with “Chil” and it stuck.

Abraham Kim
Yeah, I saw a quote in one of the interviews that you did with one of the newspapers. You were quoted as saying, “as a kid growing up in Woodbridge, Virginia, I often had to explain my existence, always the other. I found myself trying to understand my place in the diverse tapestry of the American experience”, and went on to say you left Virginia to become an artist later, but it sounded like you were struggling through your younger years, just trying to find yourself in this community.

Chil Kong
I think we need to remind especially our immigrant families when they first come here, because the whole idea, when they first come here, is just to survive, right? Just so they can get food on the table. But part of survival is mental health and I think Asians are really terrible, terrible examples of avoidance of that. One of the things that I wasn’t able to grapple with was who I was. Because I didn’t necessarily fit in here and my parents never talked about their past and they forget that in talking about your past, you ground your children into something that is stronger than where they are or who people are telling them they are. And I think it is actually crucial for parents, Asian Americans in particular, that you start talking about your roots and the stories that brought you here. Because if you don’t, someone else will tell your kids their history. They will put them in other places. They’ll call a Korean a Chinese or a “chink” or whatever it is and stigmatize them in a way that’s not really their own. It’s hard to like understand who you are if you don’t even know who your past is, right? And I think that’s why it is really important that that parents now who are having kids, who are the second generation or the 1.5, putting it on the second or third generation, you have to talk about your past and you have to try to get your parents, who are their grandparents now, to talk about their past so that you anchor them in something that’s bigger than who they are. It is something that will protect them as they get older. Because people can call you names, but if you know where you come from, those names don’t have the same impact. If you don’t know where you come from, if you don’t know your history, then it’s easier to take on these name-callings because you have no defense against it, right?

Abraham Kim
You have no anchor, or foundation, and identity.

Chil Kong
You don’t have to give them the entire life, but you have to give them something they can hold onto. I think that’s a treasure that we do not appreciate as a community. We’re starting to do it now a little bit better and I don’t just like taking traditional folk dances, that’s not it. You’ve got to talk about these stories and you have to talk about them in the way, even if there was struggle, that you have overcome them and, and have pride in who you are and where you came from because that gift is undeniable. It gives children a foundation that allows them to run faster. It’s like running a muddy water, if you don’t know who you are, than you’re just constantly running on quick sand. The more certain you are in your position in the world, it’s easier to just run on solid ground, right?

Abraham Kim
Is college where you found your calling to be a performer, cause I know you majored in marketing and psychology. But you also did a lot of performing arts-type extracurricular activities. Is that where you found your calling?

Chil Kong
Yeah, I was part of a group called the “New Virginians” and it was basically like the Donnie Marie Osman show. We traveled a lot, we would be sponsored by some rotary club or some lion’s club or like that, and we do a show for them. We were treated like a sports team; you have to keep your grades so that you can travel and do other shows. I got to learn songs and, and perform and I loved doing it. But, I was still not sure exactly what I wanted to do with my life. It wasn’t really until I saw the musical Les Mis (Les Misérables) for the first time, which was in Roanoke actually, which is not far from Virginia Tech. I was like, “Oh my God, that’s what I want to do!”. I wasn’t sure if it was to perform necessarily, but just really that thing that’s happening there, I wanted to be part of that somehow. I also understood that I needed more training. So, after I graduated Virginia Tech, I realized that I need to go back to school.

Abraham Kim
Take us from there to your career as a performing artist. How did that evolve over time after leaving your college years?

Chil Kong
After graduation Virginia tech, the nineties recession was really high at the time and I happened to be fortunate to get a job immediately. I was actually working at a couple of agencies in Richmond, Virginia. At the time, I was with a friend of mine and they were auditioning for something and I just went with them. I ended up getting the job, they didn’t. And so I was like, “Oh, maybe I should do this. I’m still young and I need to figure this out”. That’s when I said, “OK, I need to go back to school,” this is all after seeing Les Mis and how struggling with this whole thing and had a really intense argument with my parents about my future. And I kind of blazingly, with all the confidence of an entitled boy of Korean heritage. I just auditioned for places, assuming that I’d get in and I did, I got in and the bosses had offered me a full ride. So, I let my parents know and that just freaked them out because that’s not what they had conceived of my life to be.

Abraham Kim
So, after, you finished at the Boston conservatory, correct? That’s where you went?

Chil Kong
Yes. I didn’t graduate. So, I want to be clear. Literally, and I know this is gonna make a lot of people mad; I was one semester away and actually one class away from being finished but, they had a rule that you couldn’t perform. This is back then, they can now. They just changed it like two years ago. But at the time, you couldn’t perform outside the college while you were at the university and I had gone almost a whole year doing that until one of the big reviewers reviewed the show that I was in and my name was all over the place. The dean called me into the office, I kid you not, it was a month away from graduation, and he told me I had to leave the show and I said, “No”. So I left in a huff and left the university and didn’t look back. Sadly, it is one of the things that I wish I’d have finished but, the reason of me leaving was the trickle effect of all these other things that happened that I was able to. It allowed me to go to San Diego, which got me a job at San Diego Repertory Theater, and that got me to my first artistic director position where I was the youngest artist director. I was 28 and I was the leader of a fairly large institution. So I was like, “What’s happening?”

Abraham Kim
This time, did your parents come to accept your career?

Chil Kong
What’s funny is they didn’t understand what I was doing and honestly, I didn’t know how to explain it to them cause what a director does now, like what Koreans used for the term, didn’t really exist back then. So, I just kept trying to explain what I did and then the big announcement of me being the artistic director up in Seattle hit and then the Korean newspapers put it out in the newspapers and I just got a copy and I didn’t even think about it. I just folded it up and mailed it to my mom and my mom once she got it, called me crying cause she finally understood what I did cause it was in her language, you know what I mean? The article explained about my history, which just lovingly talked about me as a leader of the community. So, it put me in a position of, “Oh, this has some respect to it,” and then yet again, she’d still turn around and go, “Are you eating?”, and it wasn’t until later that I realized what she really meant. That was her way of saying “I love you” and “are you okay?” But back then, I used to just really be like, “yes, I’m eating, I’m not a poor artist!” like, I actually do very well. As you get older, you start understanding your parents more because you are your parents. That’s who you become, you become your parents.

Abraham Kim
You often hear horror stories about actors. It’s just a difficult period for them and just trying to make it. What would you recommend or what would be your words of wisdom for a struggling actor trying to break in, especially an Asian American actor trying to break in?

Chil Kong
Well, this is a weird time for film and TV and for Asians. At the height of racism that’s building around COVID-19, we also have a lot of power in Hollywood. We have a lot of Asian and Asian Pacific directors and actors who have taken up the mantle of producers and studio heads. They’ve transitioned to, and thank God, fully embraced the power of their name. Daniel Dae Kim was a friend of mine and he was part of the same circle of people who came up through the ranks of Lodestone and he’s an amazing success as an actor, but he’s parllied that into running his own film company and TV company. So, he’s got like multiple shows and pitches, he’s taken the power over, so that it’s not just him having to go out to become an actor or somewhere, he’s now choosing and selecting stories that he wants to tell.

Chil Kong
Another prime example of a person who came through Lodestone is Angela Kang. She was a playwright that started with us and now she is the producing executive producer of Walking Dead. She’s the showrunner of the Walking Dead franchise that’s up right now and she’s a remarkable writer that we just were lucky enough to tap into. Lodestone was an intrinsic part of the history and growth of Asian and Asian Pacific Islanders that came through the ranks in Hollywood. These are amazing, powerful people who switched over from just performing into other parts. Now with that in mind, as an AAPI performer, my thing with them is that there’s multiple ways to be an actor now, including this time where you have to be isolated. Get innovative and try to tell a story.

Chil Kong
The second part to that is own your story. Figure out what you want to tell and really tell it. There’s prime example, sort of like Justin Chon. He’s an amazing actor and I knew him when he was younger, but he didn’t really take hold of his career until he started creating his own material. And it just started with him doing YouTube stuff, just posting silly things and shorts and whatever online. And that evolved and he became a better storyteller, into movie like Gook, which is a powerful movie about race relations and what happened during the LA Riots. If you get a chance to get to see it, see “Gook” from Justin Chon, you can see a really good storyteller there. But he started out as an actor, as a performer, and we all forget that. He’s still making a very good career as an actor, but he started to really take ownership of the certain stories you want to tell. I say that because if you don’t do that for yourself, someone else will make the decision for you.

Chil Kong
And it is better for you to try to tell your stories now and before they take it away from you rather than later, when you don’t even have a chance to do it because you’ve been cornered into a type of role that you didn’t anticipate. The second part is training. If you really think that you could get up from doing nothing and record yourself doing silly crap and become a star, then you’re not approaching this in the right way. And I hate to tell these people but sadly what your parents are telling you in the beginning is correct. You need to get the training, you have to study. And acting takes a really concentrated study. It’s not just you getting on and memorizing your lines. You gotta really get good at your craft. Part of the reason why I was so successful early on as a performer was because I was one of the few that was trained in the New England area. So I was able to pay back all my college debt in the first two years. Because I was working constantly as an actor. But that was because I was trained. I knew what to expect. My approach to the craft was very specific. So those are the two big things I would say to those who want to be actors and performers. Figure out what stories you want to tell and just tell it. Get it out there.

Abraham Kim
Do you have role models?

Chil Kong
I was lucky that I actually got to meet a few of my role models. Soon-Tek Oh, I was a really big fan of his and not because he was one of the first Korean actors that really made it in the industry. I also knew him about him in theater. He became really well known for his Iago (from “Othello”) at Yale’s theater. He’d play the role of the Iago in “Othello”, and he became really well known because of that. It was like a lightning rod moment, his performance. So, my first show that I did out of the gate as a professional actor was the Woman Warrior and he was playing the father. And so I got to meet him and he was so gracious. The first thing he said to me was, essentially, “you can do this”. He was first Korean man who told me that I can do that. I’m in the right place, he gave me an incredible gift. And that’s the okay to be in this industry.

Abraham Kim
I know it sounds like in the performing arts field, a mentor, a role model, a wise person who traveled the path ahead of you is really an important part of your own success and development as an artist.

Chil Kong
That’s the other thing I would tell the kids nowadays is that, “you’re not the first one”. It’s like, relax, I’m glad you think you’re the first one, but you’re not. There’s a lot of other people who came before you. There was even people before Soon Tek. But, there are people before you, so learn from them. I know they’re old and I know that they’re the old generation. They kind of look like your parents and I know you had a hard time with them, but listen to these people who are ahead of you. There are things that you can learn from them, if nothing else, just to hear their experiences so that you can understand possible pitfalls. It’s really interesting to watch all these kids nowadays who are gung ho and talk about things as if they live in a vacuum and I always have to be old guy in the room to go, “Okay, relax”.

Abraham Kim
In your opinion, has the performing arts TV film field, has it gotten better in terms of diversity and inclusion over the course of your career?

Chil Kong
Yes, and honestly, the funny thing is that there was always performers. I would say there’s more performers nowadays, but there were always performers who wanted to be in front of the camera, right. The biggest shift has been on the other side. The biggest shift is the people who are deciding who is going to be in front of the camera. Not just directors, but producers and executives, there are more of us [now]. And because we’re in the room with the writers who are writing the stories and all that stuff, because they’re in the room, they include us in these storylines or become the focus of our storylines because they’ve made an active choice to do that. I think that the shift has happened with the people who are involved in the deciding of who’s going to be involved and whose story you’re going to tell. That is probably the clearest difference in now than it was back then. So yes, there’s been a dramatic shift, however, we still have this constant push-pull within our own community and the inter-race communities and the big push pull, no matter what, because the AAPI community is always this wave of immigrants, that we still have somebody who was a first generation and then their kid was a second generation. That story is always there. And so that push pull between those two generations is a constant battle. And so when I see that dynamic happening in front of me, I can look at it and go, “I know exactly what’s going to happen,”. So yes, there’s change, but I think oddly enough, the difficult battle still is within our community. Right? Cause like, I would say even Council of Korean Americans, there’s two executives from entertainment that are part of the council. We’re the ones that tell your story, so you got to start thinking about including us. Cause if you don’t like who’s going to talk about you guys, who’s going to be cause, who’s going to champion these things. We forget that our identity isn’t made by the heroes that our next door, you know what I mean, or are in the offices. That’s not the heroes that we look at. We always look at heroes in our entertainment world and we look at the stores that are out there in the ether and that’s presented in Netflix and Amazon and on TV and on movies. If we don’t understand that we have to support the artists that are going through that and telling our stories, then we are gonna be constantly trying to reinvent ourselves with people who are fighting us the entire time, and it is an unhealthy relationship that we have with our artists.

Abraham Kim
I was just going to ask how significant or how much of a ripple effect it had caused, you know, the recent Oscars, for example, Academy Awards, Parasite winning best picture. Did it have a significant impact in the industry for providing more opportunities or possible opportunities in the long term future?

Chil Kong
You’ve got to think of this in two tracks, right? There’s the industry itself and then there’s the community, right? In the industry, what’s happening is, because more people are making decisions, there are more people of color, in particular, Asians who are deciding who should win or who shouldn’t. It’s giving more credence to these alternative storylines that are popping up. Everyone’s getting tired of this very white dynamic storyline. You know, the white, straight male storyline isn’t the majority anymore and we’re looking for alternative storylines that may be different. Entertainment is fluid. In fact, I would say film and TV has become the fastest response to the way culture and mainstream culture is starting to [get] to what they want.

Chil Kong
Now the other track is the Asian, in particular, Korean track, is that we have a lot of these people who celebrated Parasite but do not celebrate the artists that are in it. That’s the problem. You know, it’s like they’ll say, “well, you know, Parasite’s great, but you’re an actor, you’re stupid. You shouldn’t be doing this,” as opposed to, “Parasite is great. How do I help you tell a story like that,” or understand that Parasite’s impact within the Hollywood industry is actually fairly important, it’s a pivot in the industry. Now I, as a community member in Korean culture, in the Korean American community, have to figure out how to make sure I support that by Korean Americans. Parasite still is very uniquely a Korean movie, not a Korean American movie and so there’s a distinction with that. You can be proud of Korea, the homeland, but you exist here and in existing here, you have to support the stories and the people who are telling the stories here.

Chil Kong
So, what I saw was this interesting wave of pride and then the next day, a dismissal of all the artists that are still here. It’s like when you don’t include these people in the arts industry as part of the really important infrastructure of leaders and of storytellers and of icons, it filters down. If you don’t think it’s important then, of course the lawyer next to you won’t either. And I think that that the only way that we can assure that the storytellers in our community are given the credence to tell the story and then the confidence to be able to tell it boldly and then support it; that can only happen by our leaders themselves. We have to look around and go, “okay, how do we make sure that people actually look at us as humans beings?” The Jewish community is a prime example of this. When they first got here, they understood that they had to be a part of the cultural fabric of America. They did it by doing musicals. I think about this “Fiddler On The Roof”. People think it’s just a musical, but actually it was a powerful story of a very Jewish storyline that you had white, straight Christian people singing the songs, they’re singing a Yiddish song and the only way you can change people’s perspective and give power to the culture is to present the culture in a way that it becomes an actual fabric. You know, an integrated piece of the American culture. And we can’t say that still, we cannot say that there is a piece out there that isn’t a uniquely American piece because that’s the other thing, Fiddler On The Roof was not a Yiddish musical, it was an American musical, but it changed the way people talked about the Jewish community, right? It also enlightened people about the Jewish community and their plight back in the 1800s that wasn’t in their preview until now. Not only do you see a piece of history, but it became a part of the American cultural mainstream.

Chil Kong
Until you empower Korean American artists to do that, it just will not happen here. If you want people to believe that you’re part of my culture, you have to create something that is part of American culture and support it. But the thing is, what I hear after that, it’s usually like, find some talented artists that’ll do that and I’m like, “stop”. You don’t just cherry pick people and all of a sudden they become stars. You have to provide the groundwork in the support system. That’s the thing, what the Jewish community did was a lot of these powerful Jewish families or people who had wealth started going, “okay, how do I get people to start talking about us in positive ways and how do we get it filtered into the founded structure,” and these important people started creating foundations, giving money to arts institutions and encouraging stories and it’s when they started creating an infrastructure for Jewish stories to be told, then of course it flourished. Instead of just saying to one plot of land, “okay, trees, start growing!,” that’s not what happens. They just started spreading water and seeds out all over the place and out of that became really beautiful flowers and plants and trees. That’s the approach that we have to take here is that if we want to be considered part of the integral part of American culture, you have to make sure that you create the artists that tell the stories that make that happen.

Abraham Kim
We need to invest in our actors and our directors and our producers in all of these different people that are in and hopefully through building up an army, some of them will flourish and become the future.

Chil Kong
And it isn’t and it doesn’t have to be purely money. You have to look at them and you cannot dismiss them. What I see is a lot of these lawyers who spent a lot of years in, and I get it, like you have earned your degree, but don’t turn around and dismiss somebody who has also earned a degree, hopefully, who is trying to tell your story, don’t dismiss their craft. It’s that dismissal that is the beginning of the trap beneath the seats. Give them breadth. If nothing else, change the way you talk about your artists and just applaud them when you can. If you don’t like it, fine. Say, “I didn’t like it, but I’m glad they’re doing it”. That’s the better approach than what I see, the dismissal and disdain that I see from Americans, particularly Korean Americans to Korean artists is no different than the white racists who look down at us during COVID, no different. That’s something people don’t understand. That look of disdain and dismissal is no different than Koreans do to artists.

Abraham Kim
I feel like we can spend a couple of hours just talking to them about these issues but I do want to shift a little bit to bring you to Maryland, to your present day roles. From California to Maryland, to become the artistic director for Adventure Theater, correct? And to work with children, community. You shared with me earlier about the significance of this position of a Korean American holding this role. Could you share with our audience the significance?

Chil Kong
I am the first, as I say. Out of the larger family theater institutions across the country in the United States, I’m the only Korean American ever to be an artist director. And I am, from what I understand, I’m the only one of a large institution who is API. So in the field I’m the only one and I don’t want to be the only one, but I am the only one right now. So the significance of that, I think it’s weird, cause I didn’t really know when I stepped into the position that that was the case.

Abraham Kim
Was it the significance of this role that brought you to Maryland? You were at the epicenter of film TV and you had a very successful career in theater, as well. Then you move all the way to the East coast for this particular role, which is no doubt, a very important role, but you know, this is not the epicenter …

Chil Kong
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the thing is, this was one of those moments of the right place at the right time and the right moment. I was in New York, I helped run a theater company out there and realized that the roles of people who run theaters in New York is a little different than any other place else. And the position that I held was more of a producer, administrative producer role and it wasn’t on as much on the creative side as I’d like it to be. It was a painful proximity issue and I realized that’s not where I wanted to be. That’s not what I wanted to do, so I need to make a change. That’s one. At the same time, my parents were sick, so I was spending a lot of time down in Virginia. This past summer, last year, I worked on a couple of musicals and both of them, I couldn’t bring my son to. One of them was a musical that had a violent Asian on Asian crime. It was a murder, really beautiful musical. But, I didn’t want my son to see Asians killing other Asians. And then the other one had lots of language and just wasn’t appropriate for him. So, I looked around, I was like, “why am I doing this?”. Now, as I was traveling down to be with my parents, this position came up and I was interviewing and the entire time I kept thinking, okay, well I want to create a show for my son. I’m visiting Virginia a lot to check on my parents, and all this crazy stuff is happening. Why am I fighting this? So that’s one, that’s why I’m here. I was offered other positions in other places, but I decided to come here now, this still was the better city of all the positions, cause it would’ve been midwest and other places that I was offered positions for. But, it’s also still very close to New York and it allows me to do a lot of work up there still. I still have contacts in LA. Does it impact me in that it’s a sharp turn for my career?Absolutely. But it’s one of those moments when you realize because of my years of theater and digital, and film and TV, I am at the right theater, oddly enough, the right situation with the right skill sets to deal with this distance artistry, because I do for my TV on top of my theatre.

Abraham Kim
Let’s talk about that. I think you’re referencing the current situation, were all in with this COVID-19 pandemic. Where we’re literally in this kind of national shutdown and we read about in the media about how it’s particularly hitting the artists community, where obviously filling theaters and seats and so forth are very important and you leading, overseeing and managing a theater, I imagine it’s particularly hit your theater in a very hard way. If you can share with us how you’re pivoting and how you’re trying to use your creativity to navigate the current storm.

Chil Kong
Yeah, first of all, I have a really amazing team of people who are smart and savvy, who works with me and who understand that I’m pushing about it, I’m trying to do other stuff. And so my marketing director has to be really quick and savvy and has to pivot with me very quickly, oftentimes in a day. I’m lucky in that I am with the right people who can pivot with me. But the thing is because I have history of digital and how to use technology to tell stories, I’m able to usually latch onto things differently in ways that other people who’ve done less of this can. Including like how we use Zoom. We learned very quickly, what drives the program and how to use it and utilize, how to turn screens off so it feels more fluid. Now, at the core of this still is that, is that this is not theater. And what I want to reiterate is that the whole point of all this digital stuff that we’re creating isn’t to replace theater. It is to supplement it and get people excited about coming back. And I think that’s the philosophy that’s really making it really interesting for everyone. From a theater company that has had maybe moderate few hits here and there on Facebook and on websites and stuff, like all theaters. We’ve gone from very small numbers to being one of the top six on Facebook in the past two weeks. We’ve been able to pivot very quickly and that’s because it’s a combination of this theatre company has been around for almost 70 years, so there’s rich history I can pull from. Then, a young group of talented kids who are part of our academy that I can tap into for their energy. And then a young talented admin team that can pivot really quickly with me, who is able to like, for me to go, “Hey, I’m gonna shoot really quickly, so put it up,” and then they’ll turn it around for me really quickly. It’s very much the right group of people are mixed into the right place and we’re making the numbers work. At the end of the day, it has to result in dollars and it’s starting to come through slowly. But, we’re hitting a lot of the benchmarks, numbers wise, I thought would have taken another like two or three weeks, so we’re way out of the game right now.

Abraham Kim
Do you feel that the audience is hungry for this kind of content out there? I see Andrew Lloyd Webber putting his musicals online. You hear about the Mets putting out their offers and different things online, it seems like the entire art community is shifting in this direction. There must be a demand out there for all of this.

Chil Kong
Yeah, I think the thing is some of that stuff is fine but, as long as your approach to it understands the context of the medium that you’re presenting it, right. Because these straight lifts for what are essentially, video recordings of a theatrical piece, there’s a disconnect in what it does. In a strange way, it flattens the artistry, it turns it into a two dimensional form that that was never intended to be that way. So, what’s happening is, yes, it’s feeding people’s nostalgia cause all those things are nostalgic titles, right? What people aren’t able to grapple with is the storytelling that you’re trying to create for new pieces, to build excitement. And so we’re doing a different model and presenting stories that we’re going to show this coming season and use this moment to really get people activated about future pieces. So, our approach is really presenting joy and sneak peeks into the future. And it’s resulted in really smart, really interactive and really fun peep things. Now it’s all in conjunction with other things. And that’s where our savvy and a lot of people’s kind of, where I guess my experience in this digital medium has really helped, because you still need approval from their district to do whatever thing and my thing to everyone was just “put out some joy”. Like one of my favorite things that’s come out of this is actually my executive director, who tells these really terrible dad jokes and in real life cause he does these jokes in the office and stuff, you’re just like, rolling your eyes. You know what I mean? Like it’s one of those things you just suffer through. But he still does it with such joy. And so what we did was, he’d mentioned that off-camera and I said, “no Leon, do them,” cause in context here like we give you a hard time about them but, he does it with such joy that we just present them, we just throw it out there. What we talk about, and I think what we’re focused on is we’re presenting bits of joy that is uniquely part of Adventure Theater, that when you see with all the pieces up, like if we threw all of it up against the wall, you can look at it and go, “oh yeah, oh I see the personality of the company,” and that’s the approach we’re taking. We didn’t want you to do this singular monolithic vision of the company, that would be the mistake because then it’s harder to pivot. It becomes just this giant Titanic. What you want to see is all these options that are available for you to go, here’s the quirky personalities, here’s the things that make this theatre interesting. Cause we are a collection of misfit toys, right? We’re a collection of these oddballs and strange people and wonderful storylines and people didn’t necessarily fit in but then found their joy in this one interesting art form and then put it out there and then allow people to pick up things that they can connect to. So when we did that, it allowed individuals to connect to things that actually were unexpected. Like the dad jokes are really funny and it’s getting a lot of pull. We have these great stories of individual artists who talked about what the impact of Adventure Theater was. There’s really lovely personal stories that have come out of, it’s called “Adventure As Me”, like these interesting hashtags that will come out of this that really celebrates the joy and then you get to see what we are. And so the idea is that that’s what happens when you come here. Cause the worst thing you can do is you see all this stuff and you come to the theater and you’re like, “Oh, this was nothing like I expected”. We still have to be at the core. But the most important part is that we celebrate all the interesting nuances of who we are.

Abraham Kim
That’s wonderful. You’re really showing the multi-facets and many personalities of your company and your theater group and connecting with them cause, like you said, different things speak to different people cause we’re all different people. Some people will latch onto different things. I hate to shift this conversation to something that’s not very joyful, but certainly something that you’ve spoken out very publicly about is obviously in this COVID-19 crisis has been this rise in anti-Asian sentiment. There’s been some media reporting of you speaking out on this, but obviously we’ve seen a lot of media report about the uptake of this. Just send me your thoughts about that and what’s going on around the country.

Chil Kong
Well, it’s been disheartening, because we’re in a country now where it is easier to blame someone than it is to try to figure out how to solve a problem. That they would rather scapegoat and burn someone’s effigy than to look and go, “All right, let’s just fix this”. We’re in a culture of racism. We just are, as much as people said that we solved racism. We saw racism when President Obama took over. That’s not the case. It’s never been the case. So a lot of this hatred has festered and there was a time, like almost all of the last week, every time I went out, I got dirty looks. Now what’s saddened me was the dirty looks from other people of color. That’s what saddened me because I get it with white, straight people. I get it. You are entitled, you think you own this country, whatever. I see you looking at me, I expect that. What I didn’t expect is actually this kind of disgust in the same look of disdain that I was getting from white people, that I got from Brown and Black people and that’s a shame, right? Because what you’re doing is you have drank the punchbowl of hatred, that you could easily turn that hatred on to another person of color and not understand that you are actually playing into the majority of racist hands. And, what’s difficult with this is that I’m a fairly large Asian guy. So those looks of disdain stay that way. They just look and they rarely turn into any kind of action. But the problem with hatred now is that hatred manifests into some kind of physical activity. Now, two-year-olds are getting stabbed! Two year olds! What kind of a douche bag do you have to be to make you get so angry that you’re okay with stabbing a two year old. I mean, think about what a total asinine, completely devoid of any kind of humanity you have to be to do that. Now, add on top of that, this person who did it at a BJ’s was a Latin/Spanish person. Think about that. These are the same people that I’ve stood up for and marched with about the camps down in the border. I know they’re not the same, right? But you look around and go, “how does this happen?” Sadly, it’s just a reminder that we have such a long way to go.

Abraham Kim
It’s heart wrenching day to hear these stories and how we’re turning on each other. Do maybe some encouragement or recommendation how the API community can get help.

Chil Kong
Here’s the big thing. By our face, by our mere name and our face, they know who we are. Here’s the positive thing out of this is that, that the New York Times article that I had in my face on the front of it was being plastered everywhere, including my white friends who are like, “Hey, this is actually happening. You guys should tone this stuff down and cause you know, I see that when they tag my name that, I see the ping and then I see there’s other people’s reaction to it and usually within the first two or three interactions with their posts, somebody says “fake news”. And what has been really positive is that these same people who are my friends who I know had some racist inclinations, right? Cause I grew up with them. I know they would come and say, “I know this person. I’ve known this person for almost 30 years, so this is not fake and this is actually happening,” and it makes people think. They can no longer say that this is, this is fake news. This is actually happening to somebody they know. I think what’s important is that you have to see it when it happens. You have to vocalize. If you’re the silent majority from now on, you are the problem. If you cannot speak about this, you are the problem. Because until you speak up and tell people and share these stories and no matter how shameful I might feel, until you do that, then you are actually doing a disservice to your friends and your community. Because until your friends who are not Asian know that this crap is happening to you, they will also believe that this is fake, because they’ll look and go, “well Jim didn’t post about it or Kim didn’t post about it, so of course it’s not happening,” and even if you just say, “look, this guy just gave me a dirty look,” just post that, because if you don’t, you are playing into every city’s racist, fake news bullshit that’s happening out there.

Chil Kong
And the only way to stop the stupidity is to connect something real to another person. I’m a real person. My friends are now connecting to that and understanding it’s real, it’s impacting a real person. And once they understood it was connected to a real person, it’s now in the power of the one on one interaction. It is why I love theater. It’s like you cannot be racist to a person that you know. You know, you don’t see lynchings don’t happen to people. You know, lynchings happen to people you don’t, who you have “othered” in such a way that they’re no longer a person. But, if they are a distinct person that you’ve interacted with, they have to recognize you as a human being and that’s why it’s like you got to stand up and talk about what you have to say it, you have to post it. If you don’t, and in very many ways, if you don’t say it, then when it actually hurts someone next, it’s your fault. It is actually your fault. I appreciate about what happened with the New York Times is that it got people to talk about it. People that typically don’t, who are part of my circle and understand the impact that it’s had. There has been really amazing responses to it. I feel like things like this are bringing us back to our humanity. It’s a slow ride, but we’ll get there.

Abraham Kim
It is these kinds of situations and sometimes crisis is like you said, it can tear apart a community obviously, but it can also strengthen a community, as well. As we go back to the basics in terms of why we exist as a community and how we need to work together to support each other, to speak out against these atrocities and the importance of how do we need to work together. Not only sweat equity but also voice. What’s equity to bring awareness and education, and so forth. Coming to the close of our interview here, I wanted to end with a final question to you, which is, “if you could meet your 18 or 19 year old self again, what would you advise the 19 year old child?”

Chil Kong
I wouldn’t change a lot of things, but what I would say to him is, “meet everything that you deal with kindness”. I wish I would’ve had that. Cause there are things that I’ve said to people in my arrogance and in my misogynistic reality cause you know, we grew up in an era of movies that weren’t really … they were more stalker movies than they were romantic movies. As long as you “stalked” the girl long enough, you know, stuff like that. We grew up in such a strange time and what I would tell him is all that aside, meet every challenge with kindness because at least you can live with everything you’ve done afterwards. There’s no room for anger. You’ve got to treat everything with kindness. As a hothead, you know, a kimchi-blooded Korean, that’s a hard thing to tell a 19 year old. But I would really say like, “meet everything with kindness and you’ll actually be very happy with what you’ve done with your life”.

Abraham Kim
That’s a wonderful way to end our podcast show today. “Meet everything with kindness.” Thank you very much, Chil, for your time, your insight, your stories, and your wisdom. And we really do appreciate all that you’re doing and we just wish you the best of hope and luck and blessings as you and your company navigate the current crisis. We’ll get through this as a community, we need to support each other. So, thank you very much for your time.

Chil Kong
Thank you. Looking forward to many more CKA events.

Abraham Kim
I hope you enjoy this interview with Chil. Plus, I hope it also inspired you to consider supporting your local art communities. It is a tremendously difficult time for performance and artists across the country. Let’s help support a community that brings so much inspiration, joy, energy, and creativity to our world. Thank you again for listening to this episode of the Korean American perspectives. As always, we ask that you please subscribe to our podcast and visit our website at councilka.org for interviews, show notes, and more. Also, feel free to send us an email at podcast@councilka.org with any comments or topics you may have. Thank you again and hope you tune in next time for the Korean American Perspectives podcast.